Question about Gaza

[Kasturi]

Do you think what is going on over in the Gaza strip to be considered genocide?

I was listening to Press tv and everyone who called in thought that it was.

Most of them also blamed the US for what is going on over there as well.


I personally do not think it is Genocide. Just a country that is tired of being bombed all the time.

[VF500]

Genicide by whom, Hamas or Israel? The Arab states have pretty much all said they want to destroy Israel. If that's not genicide, what is? Genicide is a term tossed around when people want to inflame passions and marginalize logic. I'd consider the source of that comment and avoid further contact with it, if I were you.

[David-M]

Its a war. A war does not always entail genocide.

Genocide is an overused term...just like the term crisis. Almost every problem now seems to be labeled a crisis.

[Gintaras]

On February 25, 1994, that year's Purim day, Goldstein entered a room in the Cave of the Patriarchs serving as a mosque, wearing "his army uniform with the insignia of rank, creating the image of a reserve officer on active duty" (Shamgar report). He then opened fire, killing 29 Arab Muslims and wounding 150 (A Time Magazine article from March 7th, 1994 reported that Israeli officials counted 39 killed and Palestinians reported 52 killed ). Mosque guard Mohammad Suleiman Abu Saleh said he thought that Goldstein was trying to kill as many people as possible and described how there were "bodies and blood everywhere." After being subdued with a fire extinguisher and disarmed, Goldstein was beaten to death. According to Ian Lustick, 'by mowing down Arabs he believed wanted to kill Jews, Goldstein was reenacting part of the Purim story.

The death certificate issued by the Israeli Ministry of the Interior lists the cause of his death as "murder." Although the Israeli authorities knew (via an Arab source who was present that morning) the names of those who killed Goldstein, they were never brought to trial although his wife requested that they be charged with homicide.

Palestinian rioting immediately followed the shooting, leading in the following week to the deaths of 25 Palestinians and five Israelis. Following the massacre, Israel imposed a two-week curfew on the 120,000 Palestinian residents of the city, while the 400 Jewish settlers remained free to move around. The Israeli government condemned the massacre.

Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin telephoned Mr Arafat, describing the attack as a "loathsome, criminal act of murder".

[Gintaras]

If I would start just copy/paste off Wikipedia what jewish extremists-terrorists/sionists were doing to palestinians or arabs since 1948....
....If I would post here Definition of terrorism as in US Army Manual....and what US Army is doing in other regions/countries....:rolleyes:

[Kasturi]

They were saying that it was genocide by Israel.

[VF500]

If I would start just copy/paste off Wikipedia what jewish extremists-terrorists/sionists were doing to palestinians or arabs since 1948....
....If I would post here Definition of terrorism as in US Army Manual....and what US Army is doing in other regions/countries....:rolleyes:

How far back in history do you want to go to start pasting anecdotal war incidents? If you really want to get some good ones, look into the tribal wars in Africa. Here's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4586832.stm) one for you that's pretty recent:

Conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo is killing 38,000 people each month, says the Lancet medical journal.

[David-M]

My definition of genocide is when one group of people has the clear upper hand over thousands of others and they choose to kill all of them or a large percentage of them.

Two opposing groups, none of which has the clear upper hand, is not genocide. That's called warfare.

[Kuch]

Hammas fires rockets at Israel and then hides behind Palestinian civilians while Israel counter-attacks. Israel isn’t going to apologize for killing civilians because most of them aid/support Hammas directly or indirectly anyways. None of this is genocide (except maybe by Hammas against the Palestinian civilians.)

[bob]

Neutral countries count innocent civilians equally. Israel appears not to - hence the debate.
Israel requires everyone to join the military at age 18 and keeps men on reserve to age 51.
Not so many civilians as you may think.
I don’t think Israel considers Gaza a country either.

[jessho]

I'd say most of the inhabitants of Gaza would love peace, but Hamas won't allow it until they subjugate the entire population to their will. To add insult to injury, they fire rockets into Israel and hide among civilians knowing Israel is hesitant to retaliate in civilian areas.

Israel is on a campaign to destroy Hamas. They want to destroy the leaders, the members that continue to terrorize the population, and the network of supply lines that allow Hamas to continue their operations. I can't blame them for their actions. Israel only has Israel for protection.

[eagle]

I think both should be wiped out. But Israel is just doing what we did in our history with the Native Americans. We take their land they attack us we fight back. And it went on and on for years until we finally devastated their populations and broke their spirit and will, then did with them what we wanted.

[David-M]

I would like to see Israel get all these assholes off their land and put up a wall across their entire border. Any terrorism by the Palestinians would be met with ten times the force by Israel until the Palestinians were completely incapable of terrorism. That's the only way Israel is going to win.

[VF500]

Neutral countries count innocent civilians equally. Israel appears not to - hence the debate.
Israel requires everyone to join the military at age 18 and keeps men on reserve to age 51.
Not so many civilians as you may think.
I don’t think Israel considers Gaza a country either.

Huh? Neutral countries count innocent civilians equally to what, armed militias shooting rockets at their neighbor? You've got that part right, and Israel does appear to believe that too.

What about kids younger than 18 and people older than 51? They're fair game in your book?

What difference does it make if Gaza is or isn't a country?

Anyway, the people living in Gaza voted in Hamas. They agree with Hamas' aim of wiping Israel off the map and accept being used as human shields so let them be human shields. It's their decision.

[bob]

Israel is killing civilians at the rate of around 100 for each one they lose. Neither side recognizes the other.

[VF500]

Count up how many Arabs there are and how many Israelis there are. Israel is following the policy of "If you touch me, I'll break off your arm".

[mbossman2]

this area is a challenging one. you have animosity that dates back centuries and clanish/vendetta behavior, all wrapped up in religious fervor and motivation.

The USA has committed itself as an ally of the Israelis and it would be wrong to abandon one of the only stable democracies in that region.

[heyhey]

this area is a challenging one. you have animosity that dates back centuries and clanish/vendetta behavior, all wrapped up in religious fervor and motivation.

The USA has committed itself as an ally of the Israelis and it would be wrong to abandon one of the only stable democracies in that region.

George Mitchell was an EXCELLENT choice as an envoy to this conflict.

Lets not forget he was largely instrumental if not the single greatest force in bringing peace to Northern Ireland that whoe roots of conflict was also brought about by age-old religious-political conflicts.

If anyone can make progress there.. it is him.

[Gintaras]

Do you think what is going on over in the Gaza strip to be considered genocide?



what you can think if someone else thinks for you and everything is in newspapers

and answers will be very same to what's in the news.....

[bob]

this area is a challenging one. you have animosity that dates back centuries and clanish/vendetta behavior, all wrapped up in religious fervor and motivation.

The USA has committed itself as an ally of the Israelis and it would be wrong to abandon one of the only stable democracies in that region.


Government type:
The US is a Constitution-based federal republic; strong democratic tradition
Israel is a parliamentary democracy
UK and Jorden are constitutional monarchy
Egypt is a republic
Seems it may not just be about the government types.
Source is cia.cov worldfactbook

[jessho]

George Mitchell has no Middle East experience. Time will tell if U.S. based law training will have any inpact on negotiations with countries that have laws, and customs, that are foreign to Western ideology. I'm thinking he'll not be effective.

[jessho]

Well, I was wrong. Mitchell does have Middle East experience. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aa7hdtvtfYxc&refer=worldwide)

[bob]

Well, I was wrong. Mitchell does have Middle East experience. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aa7hdtvtfYxc&refer=worldwide)

Learn a new thing every day. It seems “camel jockey” is not merely a racial slur. :D

[jessho]

Considering how Israel has a heritage of persecution that included genocide, they'll become effective and ruthless when they start feeling boxed in. They have everything to lose if they don't.

[David-M]

Learn a new thing every day. It seems “camel jockey” is not merely a racial slur. :D

Technically, there really are Arab "camel jockeys". That's certainly better than what some people call them.. "s.... n......."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_racing

[heyhey]

Technically, there really are Arab "camel jockeys". That's certainly better than what some people call them.. "s.... n......."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camel_racing

you sound like Prince Harry. ;)

[David-M]

you sound like Prince Harry. ;)

I remember him saying that word. Its not one I use though. I don't use any racial slurs in fact. Uneducated people tend to do that.

[heyhey]

I remember him saying that word. Its not one I use though. I don't use any racial slurs in fact. Uneducated people tend to do that.

I wouldn't exactly call Harry uneducated. I am sure he had a fine education. I guarantee it.

I would call him thoughtless and intolerant though.

so unlike his mother..

[David-M]

Ya know....its normal for soldiers to demonize the enemy. Are they supposed to call them sweet names? Get real, thats how soldiers are and always have been.

In WW2 they were Japs and Krauts. In the Vietnam war they were gooks. In this war, Harry already called them what they are called...ragheads. Get used to it. Get a life and learn that the world is not this politically correct place that you think it should be. If you ran the military the soldiers would be a bunch of limp wristed pink pantie wearing pussies. Militaries don't win war by fielding a bunch of girlie-men. With you everything is theory and not reality. You have probably never even been on a military base much less around anyone in the military. You have no sense of reality with respect to the military. All you liberals know is that you hate the military....(but support our troops)....buahahahah!!! ...what hypocrisy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRMJQEdX9qc

[heyhey]

Ya know....its normal for soldiers to demonize the enemy. Are they supposed to call them sweet names? Get real, thats how soldiers are and always have been.

In WW2 they were Japs and Krauts. In the Vietnam war they were gooks. In this war, Harry already called them what they are called...ragheads. Get used to it. Get a life and learn that the world is not this politically correct place that you think it should be. If you ran the military the soldiers would be a bunch of limp wristed pink pantie wearing pussies. Militaries don't win war by fielding a bunch of girlie-men. With you everything is theory and not reality. You have probably never even been on a military base much less around anyone in the military. You have no sense of reality with respect to the military. All you liberals know is that you hate the military....(but support our troops)....buahahahah!!! ...what hypocrisy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRMJQEdX9qc

look you are the one who implied he might not be educated..

I'm sure he was just trying to be one of the guys by making that statement... it is forgivable but he needs to be more cautious.. and if it came from any other of his comrades it could be simply dismissed..

it was foolish of him just the same.. ... being part of the monarchy holds very important responsbilities he didnt ask for but inherited... he is expected to be an example for his citizens even if he is in a military situation.. he is by birth above such indiscretions... like it or not..

it was very insulting to a lot of British citizens who still very much love thier Queen and expect her and hers to act to the level thier titles rise them to. ..

I'm sure it's not easy being Harry.. but then again there are plenty of people on this planet in far worse circumstances then him.

and David this is not a liberal,, or left right issue.. it's an issue of common sense... non political even... dont put some one word label on me about everything and think "liberal" defines my entire being and my position on everything from The monarchy to mashed potatoes.. .. I'm a bit more complicated then that. ;)

Hey did you see Joe Torre dishing A-rod tonight on CNN? That was something, huh?


and you know I dont hate the military... you know my 5 year plan.

play nice.

[David-M]

look you are the one who implied he might not be educated..


No, you are the one who tried to make that connection in what I said. I said that people who use words like that tend to be uneducated...and its true. The word "tend" is not an absolute...like "all" or "none". Of course Harry is well educated.....that's a given being British royalty. He is also a soldier and needs to be like the rest of the boys. Calling the enemy rude names is normal for any soldier. The media being shocked at what Harry said illustrates how little the media knows about those who are in the military. The reality is that such reporting makes the media look naive and oblivious to facts, not Harry.

No, I did not see Joe Torre. CNN is not a network I tend to watch unless I see something that catches my eye as I am changing channels. Wolf Blitzer and his left of center politics makes me nauseous. Aaron Brown too, until he got his ass fired in exchange for Anderson Cooper. At least CNN is not as bad as Democrat Headquarters, NBC. CNN is actually tolerable at times. Most of the TV that I watch is time shifted from the DVR so I can skip through the commercials. The only TV show where I actually want to see the commercials is the Super Bowl this Sunday. This time I don't care who wins, its always entertaining though. My wife and I are going for a long drive during the day this Sunday to get some oysters at Tomales Bay and for a picnic at a nearby state park. I have to be careful to play only music on Sirius so I don't know the results of the Super Bowl when we get back home to watch it on the DVR. Hey, I didn't mean to be rude...sometimes I just have to let it out via the keyboard. Its fun to debate in a forum and throw out the occasional personal insult, but in the end we still live in the same country. :)

[WJWheels]

Possibly Harry's bias is seated in his mother's relationships with Hasnat Khan (Pakistani) or Dodi Al-Fayed, with whom she died, and could be blamed for her death. If this is the case, I'd certainly cut him some slack.

[David-M]

Possibly Harry's bias is seated in his mother's relationships with Hasnat Khan (Pakistani) or Dodi Al-Fayed, with whom she died, and could be blamed for her death. If this is the case, I'd certainly cut him some slack.

Good point Wheels. Perhaps it is partially both, Harry doing what all soldiers do and being bitter about his mothers death.

[Gintaras]

Considering how Israel has a heritage of persecution that included genocide, they'll become effective and ruthless when they start feeling boxed in. They have everything to lose if they don't.

Hamas is nothing to what Israel terrorist ORGANIZATIONS did to palestinians....

should I post quotes about from Wikipedia?