White House criticizes Pelosi's planned Syria visit

[jedi_knight01]

What good does she think she is going to do? Not much IMO, I bet the just laugh at her right back to the Capital... Is she going to ask for bullet proof, missle proof,and a fighter escort as well...


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House has criticized House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's plans to stop in Syria next week during a Middle East trip that began Friday.

She will be the highest-ranking U.S. official to visit Syria since relations deteriorated between Damascus and Washington.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/30/pelosi.trip/index.html

[mbossman2]

seeing foreign policy power is shared by the President and the Senate (as defined in Article 2, section 2 of the US Constitution), exactly what she can do is severely limited and she is not empowered by her position as speaker of the house to "speak" for the USA in matters of foreign policy...

I wonder if she establishes any sort of agreement with Syria and brings it home to be acted upon by the Senate, if she is in violation of any laws and as such eligible for impeachment?

[heyhey]

seeing foreign policy power is shared by the President and the Senate (as defined in Article 2, section 2 of the US Constitution), exactly what she can do is severely limited and she is not empowered by her position as speaker of the house to "speak" for the USA in matters of foreign policy...

I wonder if she establishes any sort of agreement with Syria and brings it home to be acted upon by the Senate, if she is in violation of any laws and as such eligible for impeachment?

article 2 section 2 only gives the Senate power or advice and consent of presidendital nominees and treaties.

as the house has a long established commitee of foriegn affairs (since actually the 17th congressional congress in 1821 the house has responsbility on oversight of international affairs for 180 or some odd years with both Republican and Democratic majority. As the US house members are responsible for legislating laws relating to both domestic and international matters as well as OVERSIGHT of the Executive branch in such matters ...and Nancy Pelosi is the Speaker of said house.. which by definition is not the leader of just her party in the house but the entire house it is in no way overstepping her bounds in exploring international options the same way any congressman or senator has done throughout our history...

I dont think by her visiting or even exploring diplomatic options with Syria she is in no way bringing into law any treatsies as defined by the constitution.. as
defined treaties are laws that certianly one indivdual even the president himself cannot agree to alone.


It is interesting that you would even discuss articles of impeachment against her visit to Syria when it is in itself nothing outside of her boundries yet you continue to defend an executive branch who again and again ignore it's own limitations of power in our constitutionally granted balance of powers.

[jedi_knight01]

If pelosi and others, like Kerry think that they can do any better, then why not just jump right in and run for the white house.. We all now why kerry isn't, because he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut...

[mbossman2]

What you might want to review are the comments of Representative Marshall's(in 1800) that "The President is the sole organ of the nation in its external relations and its sole representative with foreign nations".

This comment was later cited by the Supreme Court, in 1936, in arguing the inherent and broad presidential powers in foreign relations and domestic policy is in the sphere of Congress. This doctrine has been cited as legal jusitication time and time again by administrations up to and including President Clinton's and President Bush's administrations.

That indicates a separation of powers to me...

BTW the abovementioned Rep Marshall, in case you think it was some schmucky olde tyme Congressman, became Chief Justice John Marshall (1801-1835, the longest serving justice of the Supreme Court), who, among other things is directly credited with establishing the Judiciary as a separate, independant part of government. So, if anyone understood the separation of powers as inherent and necessary in our government, it would be him

So Speaker Pelosi is clearly overstepping her bounds in this area.

[Computer Hobby]

I was talking about this with my wife as we drove home from the office. She thinks it is great Pelosi met with Assad. First, it seems she carried a message from Israel to Syria. Second, it never hurts to talk. Third, the British sailors were released. (In fairness I don't think Pelosi had anything to do with the release, but her timing was great. My wife thinks she must have been involved.)

It seemed to her that what Pelosi did this week is exactly what our Secretary of State is hired to do, but seems to be unsuited for the task. Not talking to your adversaries isn't good diplomacy. It is just plain stupid. All during the cold war America talked to the Soviet Union. Result, you and I are still alive.

Of course, if Bush and Rice were actually doing their jobs I might agree that Pelosi carrying messages between Israel and Syria is inappropriate, but a lot of Israeli and Syrian boys might live a little longer as a result of her work.

The meeting certainly wasn't inappropriate. It is part of her job to investigate the world, and to meet and communicate with foreign leaders. She is number three in line to be president. The VP has a bad ticker. She has to spend time meeting foreign leaders, friends and adversaries alike.

According to my wife, it looks like Pelosi showed up both Bush and Rice and that is why they are mad. That is why the mighty right wing noise machine has rattled the cages of the few remaining Loyal Bushies.

Anyway are the panties of the pitiful remnant of remaining Loyal Bushies all in a bunch over the three Republican congress members who met with Assad last week? Oh, you didn't know about them?

[mbossman2]

never heard about it but the same applies to them unless empowered by the president to do so...

[WJWheels]

Huh? What message? (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006957792)

Jerusalem, Israel (AHN) - The Prime Minister's Office in Jerusalem on Wednesday rebuffed visiting U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi's assertion that she was carrying an Israeli offer to resume direct peace negotiations to the Syrians.

[WJWheels]

She is number three in line to be president. The VP has a bad ticker.

Your first sentence is true, but don't even imply that she's next in line for VP.

[Computer Hobby]

Your first sentence is true, but don't even imply that she's next in line for VP.

I didn't. I just made a simple statement of fact.

[Computer Hobby]

never heard about it but the same applies to them unless empowered by the president to do so...

You never heard of it. It was in all the real papers. It just wasn't on Faux News or Rush Lamebrain. You really need to get out on the web a little further tnan the Drudge Report. Here is a link talking about Congressman Issa's visit. (http://rawstory.com/news/dpa/US_congressman_holds_talks_in_Damas_04052007.html) As is noted iin the article " The talks are the latest in a number of visits by members of the US Congress to Damascus despite objections by the administration of President George W Bush, which has rejected direct talks with Syria."

Before you Loyal Bushies dog Dems you ought to get control of your own congressional delegation. Maybe that isn't possible. Maybe they believe in diplomacy instead of sulking.

UPDATE: Here (http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/202534) is an article about the three Republicans who met with Assad last Sunday. Assad might have to buy new carpet because of the wear caused by all the Republicans trapsing in and out.

[Computer Hobby]

Huh? What message? (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7006957792)

Jerusalem, Israel (AHN) - The Prime Minister's Office in Jerusalem on Wednesday rebuffed visiting U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi's assertion that she was carrying an Israeli offer to resume direct peace negotiations to the Syrians.

This message. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/844730.html) It is not unusual at all for a leader to deny it sent a message through a third party. Local domestic consumption? Maybe Israel doesn't want to piss somebody off. It has been a long time since we have actually had real diplomats but in real diplomacy denials are routine.

[WJWheels]

Oh, ok! That's quite a bit different than saying Israel wants peace talks. I can hear her now, "Hya Bashar baby. I've got some good news for you from Olmert. He's decided not to blow your sandy ass back to the stone age... for now anyway."

And as far as her visit having anything to do with the release of the Brit service people, I think the Nimitz heading that way was all the impetus needed.

[mbossman2]

You never heard of it. It was in all the real papers. It just wasn't on Faux News or Rush Lamebrain.

as I have pointed out: I don't watch or visit Fox nor do I listen to Rush Limbaugh (he was interesting when he 1st came on the air but now it is and has been the same old schtick, so why bother?)

[Computer Hobby]

as I have pointed out: I don't watch or visit Fox nor do I listen to Rush Limbaugh (he was interesting when he 1st came on the air but now it is and has been the same old schtick, so why bother?)

Then where do you go for your talking points fix?

[heyhey]

Then where do you go for your talking points fix?
my guess he is frequents newsmax :)

[jessho]

She's violated the Logan Act. I say draw and quarter her with her entourage, although she can only get three years max. That's a good start.

[heyhey]

What you might want to review are the comments of Representative Marshall's(in 1800) that "The President is the sole organ of the nation in its external relations and its sole representative with foreign nations".

This comment was later cited by the Supreme Court, in 1936, in arguing the inherent and broad presidential powers in foreign relations and domestic policy is in the sphere of Congress. This doctrine has been cited as legal jusitication time and time again by administrations up to and including President Clinton's and President Bush's administrations.

That indicates a separation of powers to me...

BTW the abovementioned Rep Marshall, in case you think it was some schmucky olde tyme Congressman, became Chief Justice John Marshall (1801-1835, the longest serving justice of the Supreme Court), who, among other things is directly credited with establishing the Judiciary as a separate, independant part of government. So, if anyone understood the separation of powers as inherent and necessary in our government, it would be him

So Speaker Pelosi is clearly overstepping her bounds in this area.

let's counter that with some James Madison



“This belongs to the nation, and to the nation alone, on whom the government operates.... It is evident, therefore, that if the executive has a right to reject a public minister, it must be founded on some other consideration than a change in the government, or the newness of the government; and consequently a right to refuse to acknowledge a new government cannot be implied by the right to refuse a public minister. It is not denied that there may be cases in which a respect to the general principles of liberty, the essential rights of the people, or the overruling sentiments of humanity, might require a government, whether new or old, to be treated as an illegitimate despotism. Such are in fact discussed and admitted by the most approved authorities. But they are great and extraordinary cases, by no means submitted to so limited an organ of the national will as the executive of the United States; and certainly not to be brought by any torture of words, within the right to receive ambassadors.”

[Computer Hobby]

jessho do you really think for a moment she didn't really have the administration's sub rosa blessing to go. They all did. The President didn't like it, but he signed off. How the heck do you think she got security and all the rest for the trip. The phrase the administration is using is that they "discourage" the visits. That means they are not trying to stop the various lawmakers from going. They are "discouraging" them from going.

Logan act, that's rich.

[heyhey]

let's counter that with some James Madison



“This belongs to the nation, and to the nation alone, on whom the government operates.... It is evident, therefore, that if the executive has a right to reject a public minister, it must be founded on some other consideration than a change in the government, or the newness of the government; and consequently a right to refuse to acknowledge a new government cannot be implied by the right to refuse a public minister. It is not denied that there may be cases in which a respect to the general principles of liberty, the essential rights of the people, or the overruling sentiments of humanity, might require a government, whether new or old, to be treated as an illegitimate despotism. Such are in fact discussed and admitted by the most approved authorities. But they are great and extraordinary cases, by no means submitted to so limited an organ of the national will as the executive of the United States; and certainly not to be brought by any torture of words, within the right to receive ambassadors.”

also important fact for the record is that James Madison who opines quite differently then Marshall is considered by most scholars to be the primary writer and "Father" of guess what???


THE CONSTITUTION

again he says....

But they are great and extraordinary cases, by no means submitted to so limited an organ of the national will as the executive of the United States; and certainly not to be brought by any torture of words, within the right to receive ambassadors
Nancy was completely within her scope as Speaker of the house... as were other memebers of Congress both Senators and Represntaive of both parties... as being duly elected by The American people who by an evergrowing majority disagree with this adminstration's handling of The War in Iraq to meet with the leaders of Syria... in fact it is IMO... Her RESPONSIBILTY... given the lack of such efforts by our current agent of the President to usually handle such matters.. Condoleeza Rice.

[David M]

Pelosi not only lied, she broke the law. She should be in jail.

What an arrogant dumbass.

[Computer Hobby]

Stuff it, David.

Denny Hastert did the same thing and the people feeding you your talking points applauded. Same with Newt Gingrich.

Here is a link (http://proctoringcongress.blogspot.com/2007/04/cranking-up-mighty-wurlitzer.html#links). If you can handle the truth, give it a gander.

[themistocles]

There are historical examples of Presidents sending Speakers of the same party to engage in diplomatic efforts with unfriendly nations. I don't know if anything like this has ever happened before, though (specifically the Speaker of the House and being of another political party).

[Computer Hobby]

There are historical examples of Presidents sending Speakers of the same party to engage in diplomatic efforts with unfriendly nations. I don't know if anything like this has ever happened before, though (specifically the Speaker of the House and being of another political party).

Last I looked Hastert and Gingrich were both Republicans and Clinton was President when they went on their trips. You must be suffering from that new disease affecting only Republicans, you know the disease it's called "I can't recall." :)

Anyway follow my link in the post above. It will refresh your obviously failing memory.

[jedi_knight01]

I was talking about this with my wife as we drove home from the office. She thinks it is great Pelosi met with Assad. First, it seems she carried a message from Israel to Syria. Second, it never hurts to talk. Third, the British sailors were released. (In fairness I don't think Pelosi had anything to do with the release, but her timing was great. My wife thinks she must have been involved.)

And I bet you give her all the credit for this....Please she even botched the message she was suppose to give from Isreal... She needs to stay here in the us and do the job she was elected to do.. BTW the dems are doing no better at running the congress than the repubs did...

[David M]

Stuff it, David.

Denny Hastert did the same thing and the people feeding you your talking points applauded. Same with Newt Gingrich.

Here is a link (http://proctoringcongress.blogspot.com/2007/04/cranking-up-mighty-wurlitzer.html#links). If you can handle the truth, give it a gander.

It always seems to be the case with you liberals that two wrongs make it right.

[themistocles]

It always seems to be the case with you liberals that two wrongs make it right.

"Rules for thee, not for me."

The guiding principle of the left.

[Computer Hobby]

I don't recall guys on the right screaming Logan act or all the rest of the nonsense when Hastert and Gingrich went on their trips, but then again a good working hypothesis for most things of this nature is "hypocracy thy name is Republican."

[jedi_knight01]

Well her royal highness Pelosi said this is anew congress and things were going to change did she not...Personally I haven't seen any changes yet.. All I see is them wanting to start all kinds of investigations, for their own political gain..

[David M]

"Things are going to be different this time" is the biggest political lie we hear every four years. It applies equally to both parties. American's are so gullible.

[Computer Hobby]

Here is a link that should end the Logan Act talk. (http://www.samefacts.com/archives/msm_mainstream_media_/2007/04/lets_have_some_hearings.php) The state department arranged all the recent congressional junkets to Syria, including Pelosi's. The president knew she was going before she went.

[Kuch]

I'm not sure I would have sent Pelosi (but hey, I don't know her) but I will say sending any type of entourage on any type of visit to a non-friendly nation is almost always a good idea for a number of reasons.

1. This creates a lot of espionage opportunities if the right people are on the security detail and they can recruit sympathizers.

2. It keeps us looking good in the public eye, which is where the majority of battles really matter. We can always say to the UN, "We tried to work things out." right before we carpet bomb them.

3. Our openness to discussion after a lengthy period of not being open to talks may serve to keep people off balance. The phrase Keep your friends closer and your enemies closer has withstood the tests of time for a reason.

[heyhey]

Tom Lantos the only Holocaust survivor in congress wants to take this a step further and go and visit Iran. I think he is the ideal delgate to do this...

he certainly won't put up with the anti-semantic, Isreal hating, Holcaust denying of the Iranian adminstration, yet he is a Democrat and his political position on the war is in line with the American People rather then this stubborn do it alone adminstration.

Yet the Whitehouse is warning him against it... let's see if he gets State Department clearance.

[Kuch]

I say have him go to Iran with the message to start a student exchange program. One of our biggest strengths is what people can see about our country and culture on a day to day basis.

[themistocles]

Tom Lantos the only Holocaust survivor in congress wants to take this a step further and go and visit Iran. I think he is the ideal delgate to do this...

He should not have to subject himself to animals. They will not believe him anyways. Holocaust denial is a vile article of faith.

[heyhey]

He should not have to subject himself to animals. They will not believe him anyways. Holocaust denial is a vile article of faith.
his choice. he is the one wanting to go.