Germ Theory

[drisley]

Alright, Bob. Quick-like before I sign off for the nite. ;)

I believe in the germ theory, but I think it is the result of mental cause, not the cause in itself. Usually, you will find that when people get sick, it is because of either a direct contact with suppression or the restimulation of it. People common call this "stress" for lack of better description. Certain people in this world have suppressive tendecies. When others are connected to these types, they tend to be more prone to getting sick. Sometimes they don't have anyone around at this point like this, but something that happens in the present can restimulate past suppression. Stress is often this. It is things not going your way in general, and sometimes it is hard to pinpoint without help.

Kids who are in environments where they are often "put-down", or around bullies, or around parents who yell at them - you will find that these kids get sick more often. Kids who live in households that live and let live, where the parents act as guides but not barriers, you will find that these kids get less sick less often. The same holds true for adults. When an adult is having problems at work, a shitty boss, a nagging spouse, you name it, they are more prone to getting sick.

The reason I wanted to discuss this in this forum is because, obviously, you have to follow a different philosophy of life to believe this. I, myself, have noticed it time and time again. In fact, I have, a few times, sat down with people who are feeling like shit, communicated with them and got them to spot the "suppression", and they felt better and got over the sickness pretty fast. But, again, you have to know that human beings CAUSE their own environment, they are not the effect of it. The germ theory, as a physical phenomena, is proven - but I believe this is just a physical manifestation of other causes.

Feel free to respond....I won't get back to ya till tomorrow, though.

[bob]

Lets start general for now. [specific later about simple biotic infections and how drugs help/cure]


All people are fighting off disease daily with their natural IMMUNE system. White blood cells and all that stuff.
It is a constant microbattle where the healthy people usually win. The old with underfunctioning immune systems and the young with underdeveloped systems sometimes lose the battle. Slice a healthy body open and let the microbes in and expect infection no matter how much they pray or chant.

Yes stress can supress the natural immume system and keep the production of white blood cells at low levels. (measureable) Then the body is not able to fight the normal exposure to biotic attacks.

I propose that the body protects its self with physical defences and the mind can impead the process. Can the mind also stimulate the immune process - I will agree there too.

We surely agree on some points and surlely do not on others.

Are we ready for how drugs can help and cure and why - or am I jumping the gun?

Sort and reply - will be fun.

[drisley]

Hehehe.....I'm not sure where to go with it. We can argue about certain drugs and stuff, but what it boils down to is that these drugs will not work well unless the mind and spirit are well, too. This is why, in order to cure any illness, you must handle the mind and the body. There are ways to handle the mind (not drugs, mind you) and you can use drugs to help the body's immune system.

I think what's key to my arguement is that this "stress" is not just a general thing - it is actually a connection (past or present) to a suppressive individual. If the person spots the WHO, they can handle the situation and that puts them back into a situation where they are causing their own environment instead of being the effect of it.

[Prader Willi]

The relationship betwen stress and illness is well known. Don't forget, though, that good stress (Christmas, birth of a child, graduating from college, moving, etc.) is just as likely to cause illness as bad stress. (The body's physiological reaction to stress is the same whether it is good or bad stress- the brain just interprets the stress reaction as good or bad based on the nature of the event that caused the stress reaction). There are psychological tests that measure the amount of stress (good and bad) a person has endured over the past year. The results are used to predict the risk factor of the person contracting an illness.

However, much of the bad stress experienced by people is due to their subjective interpretation of an event. Example: getting cut-off in traffic can be a highly stressful event for some people and lead to road rage; likewise, not having a certan type of clothing to wear to school can be highly stressful to some. Also, the stressful event might be entirely subjective, that is, just in your own mind. It is possible to be by yourself (i.e., driving home from work) and by just thinking about things that you think may have happened, to become angry and generally stressed-out. In psychology, cognitive-behavioral therapy is used to change how people perceive and interpret events and thereby reduce stress.

[drisley]

That sounds like psychosomatic illness.

I don't think any psychological "therapy" is truly helpful. That cognitive-behavioral therapy simply changes the way the person reacts to an event instead of dealing with the actual cause of the reaction, which is in actuality usually a restimulation of a past traumatic event. You have to get rid of the stress of the event by havign the patient confront the event over and over until it is no longer upsetting.

[Lucifer]

drisley, for a guy who says he isn't a $cientologist you sure have the jargon down pat.

[Prader Willi]

Originally posted by drisley
You have to get rid of the stress of the event by havign the patient confront the event over and over until it is no longer upsetting.

Right, but that is part of behavioral therapy (called systematic dysensitization)- this is the technique used to cure people of various phobia's. However, if the stress is caused by internal (irrational or inaccurate) mental representations of an event (i.e., I can only be happy if a certain person likes and approves of me), then the cognitve component of the therapy is needed to change the maladaptive belief system. For instance, if a man believes that he can only be happy if a certain female approves of him and likes him but the female often finds fault with him and dates other people, then the man will be under much stress to obtain approval from the woman. Just exposing him to the woman repeatedly would only serve to increase the stress. What would be needed is some cogntive therapy to change his irrational belief system- so that his perceived self-esteem in not based on approval from external sources.

[drisley]

Prader, sounds like a little psycho-babble to me. As you probably know, I don't think much of it. ;)

Lucifer, actually, the concept of psychosomatics is not Scientology, but Dianetics. They are two very different things, although one led to another indirectly. I've read the book Dianetics and have seen it work. I've even met some shrinks who use it, as it is growing in popularity. Besides, I know too much about Scientology to condemn it, I've found probably 95% of the press about it to be utterly false. No, I don't consider myself a Scientologist, but I have read some of the books (they are in the bookstore) and find it a very viable philosophy. Honestly, I could be more into it if it weren't for the $$$ thing. Oh well.

[bob]

/"the actual cause of the reaction, which is in actuality usually a restimulation of a past traumatic event"/

For me it is the expectation of a future traumatic event or a current event. Why is it always a past event - guess one must blame the unknown to make the theory work. ;)

/"I've even met some shrinks who use it"/
Hmmmmmmm....... Did it work?

[drisley]

Well, the way I see it, if you are expecting something stressful or bad to happen, its because it or something like it has happened to you in your past. That is why I say that. Its just like a kid - they'll get themselves into trouble because they "don't know any better", another way of saying nothing like that has happened to them before that still has effect on them.

And, yes, Dianetics does work. A lot of shrinks find themselves immediately sceptical about it because their college schooling is so in-grained into their head and they can't accept the fact that something other than what they were taught might work. Its like they have to unlearn and then re-learn. So, if they use it, it has to be because that particular person sees it works.

Its an interesting read, if you're interested. It can be a tough book to get all the way through, though. It was written for the 1950's literacy level. ;)