Got two words for ya... Bush... ok, just one word.

[Tiretool]

I think Bush will end up mopping the floor with Al's nose hair. Al comes to the table with alot of baggage... the money scandal, the shadow of the corrupt Clinton administration, the way his mom dresses him...
He's really got no business running if you ask me.

[Paul Victorey]

Well, I think Gore is the better man. The scandals mostly involve the administration he's a part of, and really, as scummy as Clinton may be, it's Gore's job to stand by him. It's what the VP does.

Bush is too much of an intellectual lightweight, and, unlike Gerald Ford who was also not the brightest, Bush seems to think he's a lot smarter than he is. A dumb president who knows he's dumb will appoint good advisors and listen to them; someone who's dumb but thinks otherwise is a really dangerous person to have in power. I'll vote Gore, he (although he misspeaks at times) is the smarter of the two, and could probably do a much better job at leading.

[M. A. Dockter]

Slight problem when getting 50% of the people, and ultimately 270 electorals, of the people to belive that Gore is smarter is to get people to belive it. The Media plays Bush as their 'Darling Child' while gore is reported as the same old gore trying hard to beat bush. Most headlines I hear are...

"<font size="3">BUSH VISISTS NEW HAMPSHRE</font><font size="1">....and gore moves headquarters to TN</font>

If the press would be impartial, we'd actually have a race, but, saddly, Bush is gonna win....

All I can say is McCain 2004...sad thing to see him drop out. He could of at least split the Republican Ticket and allowed Gore to win...but noooooo...

[drisley]

I think Bush needs to win. We need a Republican in office. McCain would have been fine, but he's out.

Paul, why do you think Bush is stupid? You don't get to his status by being stupid. And if you got it from the mass media, look at your source. The mass media loves Gore. And it is an obvious bias.

My view on Gore: he is shallow. He is completely poll driven. He will say whatever will get him elected. He preaches something, then Bush comes in with another idea people like, then Gore will run in like it was his idea in the first place. He has "re-invented" himself a thousand times to the point he loos like a multi-personality disorder.

[Paul Victorey]

Well, really, he says about as dumb of stuff as Quayle has said. Going by the sheer number of dumb quotes he's made, he doesn't seem a very smart person.

It also seems he just rode his dad's coattails to political status. He's not his father; although I would usually vote democratic, George Bush did do a pretty good job as president, overall. Clinton, too, did a decent job, aside from being a sleazebag.

Quotes by George W:

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
-- Florence, South Carolina, Jan. 11, 2000

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."
-- in Nashua, New Hampshire, Jan. 27, 2000

"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
-- in Concord, New Hampshire Jan. 29, 2000

"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and principles, come and join thiscampaign."
-- Hilton Head, South Carolina, Feb. 16, 2000

"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have-he can't have it both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."
-- Florence, South Carolina, Feb. 17, 2000

"I understand small business growth. I was one." -- New York Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."--Reuters,May 5, 2000

"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is
sometimes until we get an objective analysis."—Meet the Press, April 15, 2000

"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."—In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000

"Reading is the basics for all learning."—Announcing his "Reading First" initiative in Reston, Va., March 28, 2000

"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations, their obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal—federal cufflink."—At Fritsche Middle School, Milwaukee, March 30, 2000

"I don't have to accept their tenants. I was trying to convince those college students to accept my tenants. And I reject any labeling me because I happened to go to the university."—Today, Feb. 23, 2000

"We ought to make the pie higher."—South Carolina Republican Debate, Feb. 15, 2000

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."—Speaking during "Perseverance Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000

And, from an economic standpoint, he is a supporter of Reaganomics, a system that led the US to serious inflation and a recession in the 80s. It was tried and proven an unsound economic strategy. The past 8 years have been ones of serious economic strengthening. Unemployment has never been so low. Inflation is under control, the economy is going really well, and Bush wants to change a winning strategy to one that harmed the U.S. incredibly.

[M. A. Dockter]

I might have voted for him until I found about about Reganomics...I won't say what I'm thinking right now...Paul already said it.

What I will say, is that we better take care of this before it gets out of hand.

[Tiretool]

Originally posted by Paul Victorey
Clinton, too, did a decent job, aside from being a sleazebag.

Are you serious? He commited crimes while in office that may end in him being disbarred. He lied under oath! He lied to the people that trust in him to run the biggest and most powerful country in the world. Americans trust in this man who has the power to, (heaven forbid) start a third world war, and he lied to us. I mean come on. Clinton is no idiot. I will give him that, but his leadership ability (in my eyes) went right out the window when he decided to lie under oath in a court in which he attested before God and his country to tell the truth.

[drisley]

Nothing is out of hand. This is to be expected in a forum on politics. No big deal. It's just people getting together to talk politics. And, if it DOES get out of hand, then we take care of it.

But, we have to expect some bickering in here. That's not a big deal. There are about as many political opinions as there are people. =)

I'll moderate this forum. Politics is kinda a personal interest to me anyway, and I'll take care of the riff-raff.

Later....

[Paul Victorey]

True, Clinton did lie under oath, and that is a very serious crime. However, he has never made any decisions that have had a terrible negative effect on the country itself. His leadership of the country was OK, his conduction of his private affairs was not.

[M. A. Dockter]

I think his personal life (afterall, this whole thing about Clinton got started about that) had no buisness getting into his offical life. Who cares if he got head in the oval office? More power to him I guess. I don't care if the man is sleeping with Roseanne, as long as he can carry out the duties of the Presidency without fucking that up (Hoover, Nixon..etc) I see no problem with it at all.

I hate to say this, but I think it was the Republicans trying to throw him from office. During The Cliton Scandal, does anyone remember what was going on with Gore? Does "Fund Raising Scandal" come to mind. If Clinton got kicked, they'd try to do the same to Gore, and by that time, they'd probably have a less liberal president in office.

Just my Theory...

[M. A. Dockter]

I hope you relize david and by putting yourself as a moderator, you can't admin anymore via the control panel under the name David Risley. I found out that a person can only be one thing.

Registered, Moderator, Super MOd, and Admin.

Look, it even says Moderator under your name....

Say something if you can't put yourself back as mod and I'll do it

[Scott]

I may have a somewhat biased opinion of the Clinton/Gore camp than some of you guys, having been jerked around and over worked by those bastards for the past 8 years in the military, you should hear some of the crap I have done for the sake of his foreign policy. Not to mention the fact that I get to fly on an airplane that has run out of spare parts because we can't afford them. We routinely take a good airplane apart to scrounge parts to get others flying...rob peter to pay paul kinda thing.

As for the Reganomics, I don't think anyone could stop the US economy, except maybe the guys charging me $2 for a gallon of gas (jk). The tech industry is more responisible for the economy than anything Bill has done. Had Dole won the election, people would be praising his economic genius, not Clinton's. This administration is very happy creating more programs to help people, taking away self-reliance, and getting people to depend on the government.

I guess I'm just bitter after years of disgrace in the Oval Office. It's no fun traveling around the world when people disrespect me and my country because of our leader. Sure, we can bomb the hell out of people with our cruise missles and high tech smart bombs, but world opinion matters more than Clinton tends to think.

[drisley]

I agree Scott.

Not only that, but anyone trained in business knows the basic business cycle: it goes up then down then up then down. Clinton just happened to be in during the up.

If anything, he has really put the government into more of a jam. If I understand it correctly, to help "reduce the debt", be replaced more long-term bonds with short-term bonds. My question, why happens when thesew little wimpy bonds come payable?

In short, his administration is all show. Anyone who has really been affected by something they did and could do complains about it. Those who don't are taking the crystal clean image spoon-fed to us in the media.

[Scott]

Just a few more comments here...

>"However, he has never made any decisions that have had a >terrible negative effect on the country itself."

I tend to disagree. In the past eight years, we have seen the Chinese become a huge threat ot our national security, botched missions in Somalia, a possible war crimes charge against the US for participation in the Belgrade bombing/targeting of civilians (which is explicitly prohibited by the Geneva Convention, civialians are classified as "non-combatants"), the loss of nuclear secrets, an increase in drug use among youth (remember how Bill chuckled on MTV about his drug usage, great example), not to mention our military has been stripped to almost half of what it was ten years ago, while our forces have been utilized in more "peace keeping" operations in the past 8 years than in any other time in history. Just because the news quits reporting doesn't mean that there isn't still thousands of soldiers sitting in Saudi Arabia, Bosnia, Kosovo, UAE, just to name a few. Imagine cutting the workforce at your place of employment by half, then increase your production, and when you complain get told we have to "do more with less". That would imply that you weren't working hard enough to begin with. I guess the fact that I have worked 36 hour days (no lie) to fly troops and supplies to another of our leaders CNN wars doesn't count as working hard enough.

And part two:

>Who cares if he got head in the oval office?

Well, as a flight instructor, if I had one of my students do the deed on me, I would go to jail. It would be an abuse of my power and position of authority over the woman. Sure, wouldn't we all like a little nookie at the office, but as adults we are supposed to be able to overcome these urges. And, as the most powerful man in the world, if he can't resist a little head from an intern, how can we trust him not to take a bribe or something else? If I am held to a higher standard than the average person, shouldn't the President?

[Tiretool]

Two thumbs up padawan!!
Damn.. I couldn't have put it any better myself.

I can definitely relate...
As an ex CE troop I spent 8 months in Saudi and 7 in South Korea. The South Korea trip was a real world force beef-up to augment a Japanese Aircraft carrier's trip to Saudi. We had to go on 2 day notice to a run down airfield and do a complete overhaul to support Flight support crews from Eilson AFB and Kadena AFB. Roughly about 3000 people on a base designed to hold probably 1500. Can you say tent city? Can you say disgusted people who didn't volunteer nor want to be there?
I can relate.

And about him getting his freak on in the oval office... I too am damn pissed that he was slapped on the wrist instead of the face. The head hauncho is supposed to lead by example. What has he showed by this disgrace to his office? He has lowered values in America and all the other countries in the world sit back and snicker... They look at America and compare it to Amsterdam or certain districts in the Phillipines where people do drugs and hire prostitutes. They think of America as a place to "party" and they think "whatever I do in the U.S. will be OK because if Bill can do it, I can too and I won't get in trouble".
Enough of this soap box stuff...
I'm all flustered now.

People who view his actions as "OK" only add to the progress he has made to lower morals and family values in this country.

[Edited by Tiretool on 07-07-2000 at 09:41 AM]

[Prader Willi]

I thought the intellectual lightweight stuff about Bush had been dispelled. Fox News checked the college transcripts and Bush was a better student than Gore. Also, making grammatical errors when speaking is not related to intellectual abilities such as reasoning or decision making and certainly isn't predictive of leadership ability.

I'll base my decision on who to vote for on the candidates' character and honor and which one I can believe. Who is less likely to change positions and distort records and do whatever is necessary (even if it is illegal) to obtain votes. Who is less likely to demonize organizations and individuals to further his political agenda? Given these criteria, why is obvious who I will vote for?

[drisley]

Yes, Fox News would probably have done that. Fox is the only news outlet that really shows all sides and does not default toward the liberal thought process.

On the other end of the spectrum, CNN's president is a good friend of Bill Clinton. Hhhmmm....do I sniff a conflict of interest?

[stylin19]

"....as scummy as Clinton may be, it's Gore's job to stand by him. It's what the VP does."

I heard that alot from others, and I disagree. Al Gore is first and foremost, Vice-President of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. He can't be fired by the President, hence he doesnt serve at the pleasure the POTUS. Loyalty is one thing, but on the day Clinton was impeached, Gore called him the greatest president of all times. that's too wacky....

Also,

"...Well, really, he says about as dumb of stuff as Quayle has said. Going by the sheer number of dumb quotes he's made, he doesn't seem a very smart person.
It also seems he just rode his dad's coattails to political status. He's not his father ...."

That statement could also be about Al Gore.....I can provide just as many, if not more dumb quotes by Al Gore.

Clinton, as govorner of Ark, in 1985, PRAISED ( grudegingly) Ronald Reagan for his economic policies, in getting the USA out of a recession.
Clinton, recently, also gave belated credit to the current economy to Bush & Reagan.
Reaganomics has served Clinton well.

I will vote for Bush, but I bet ( 3 bucks ) on Gore 1 year ago. I still think he will win, unless Gore is included in the "Clinton fatigue".
If he can get to the "moms" like Clinton did with his "soccer moms" cliche, he may have a great chance.....course the last presidential predicition i made, I had Jerry Ford over Carter in a landslide... :)

[mcubed]

I wonder what they would do if the majority of us voted for "none of the above?" That would leave 'em in the lurch I'd bet.

MMM

[M. A. Dockter]

Maybe my favorite Political Neighbor will make it to be President. Jessy Ventura. I have to admit, he does tell it like it is, and he did carry out on more campain promises than Most have. I wonder if he'd mind being Gov. of Wisconsin as well...