Yes, there is a state sponsored religion

[mbossman2]

in the US and it ain't what you think.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/bs20040407.shtml




















(I wasn't sure if this belonged in humor, religion or conspiracy theories)

[troysvihl]

Well, they're pretty much a bunch of nutcases, IMHO. But more power to 'em if they get to keep more of their own money.

[drisley]

That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by drisley
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....drisley lives in the Tampa/Clearwater area...maybe he has been sucked in by the CO$...and I am on my way to be an SP...now this definitely needs to be in Conspiracy Theory.

[troysvihl]

Ok, I know "SP" is a suppressive person, but what is "CO"?

[mbossman2]

CO$ = Church of $cientology

[troysvihl]

ah

[drisley]

Trust me, mboss, that guy is clueless. I mean, the whole idea of getting rid of thetans....hehehe....I'd love to know who makes that shit up. It reminds me of a thread here some time ago where Troy here dismissed the whole idea of Dianetics because he watched a "clear" stutter a few times. Troy, where you got the idea that a clear was some kind of computer, I don't know.

Anyway, I think I'll just leave it at that, guys. :)

[troysvihl]

Actually, that's quite a real case and I'm hoping the Jewish dude wins it.

Troy, where you got the idea that a clear was some kind of computer, I don't know.

LRH says it about a dozen times in Dianetics. I've long since tossed out the book, but I remember quite clearly that he made a claim that a Clear's mind is so great that they don't even make mistakes of pronunciation.

You know, those COS guys are still sending me materials? It's been 5 years and about 4 moves across multiple states, and they still track me down to send me their junk mail.

[drisley]

I'd have to look, but I find that highly unlikely. I have a copy of Dianetics. Honestly, I could never make it all the way through. Its a tough book to read. But, that is not true, let me tell you. Pronunciation depends on one's knowledge of the language he's speaking - that's it.

[mbossman2]

Originally posted by drisley
Trust me, mboss, that guy is clueless. I mean, the whole idea of getting rid of thetans....hehehe....I'd love to know who makes that shit up. It reminds me of a thread here some time ago where Troy here dismissed the whole idea of Dianetics because he watched a "clear" stutter a few times. Troy, where you got the idea that a clear was some kind of computer, I don't know.

Anyway, I think I'll just leave it at that, guys. :)

This is no shit...this is, purportedly, the basis of the Church of Scientology, a religion created by pulp writer, L Ron Hubbard who, by most accounts, was a loony toon.

for your reading pleasure:

www.xenu.net

Check out Scientology Illustrated and if you want nightmares review the whole site...

The point is that the IRS allows members of L. Ron Hubbard's Church of Scientology are allowed to write off costly Scientologist "auditing" and "training" services as charitable gift deductions, no other religion is afforded such a wonderful "gift"

[drisley]

Purportedly, by some, I guess. But, again, trust me - its shit. :) You can read even the most basic book on the subject and realize that "purging of thetans" is not even in the vocabulary. And, going to Xenu.net to learn about COS is (since this is a politics forum) like going to moveon.org to learn about George Bush. I know, mboss, that your logical skills are not limited to politics only. You neither, Troy. Definitely not mine.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand, I thought any contributions to a charity or church were tax-deductible? How can one say no other religion is afforded that? I thought they all were. Is there something I'm missing?

[troysvihl]

Well, it is a dry read, but I got through it. LHR didn't say a Clear would instantly know how to pronounce a new word they've never heard before. But he did say a Clear wouldn't make the normal, every-day mistakes when speaking. I.e., they don't stumble on their words.

In any event, I heard several supposed Clears stumble on their words and make the same mistakes that everyone else routinely does. I came to the conclusion that either 1) these people weren't really clears, or 2) the very premise of Dianetics was false.

Some tramatic events in people's lives may contribute to some people's neuroses, but I just don't buy the whole spiel about how wonderful life will be once you "unlock" them all.

[troysvihl]

They are tax deductable, but the IRS has decided to make a distinction between contributions for spirital reasons and contributions for educational reasons. The IRS's position is that auditing is spirital but tuition at a Jewish school is educational.

[mbossman2]

Contributions yes. Cost of going to "school" or receive religious training No, unless you are part of the CO$.

BTW, I do think the CO$ is way the fuck out there, and the "thetan" thing sounds just like something L Ron would write (have read several of his novels and that just about sounds along his lines)

[WJWheels]

I recieved my copy of Dianetics in a supermarket parking lot in Arlington Virginia 30 years ago. I had just parked my car and was approached by a cute young girl looking for donations in return for the book. I forget how much (if any) I gave her, but I'm sure for another $10 I could've had a BJ.

[troysvihl]

Well, $10 went a lot further 30 years ago.

[drisley]

I think you either misinterpretted what you read, Troy, or that the people you heard were not really Clear. I just don't know, though. Several years back I went to a seminar and watched a Dianetic session. I even did a session on a guy...you know, regular Book One like you read about. I watched the guy go through the incident several times and come out the other end high as a kite. I guess everybody's experience is different.

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by troysvihl
Well, $10 went a lot further 30 years ago. Yea, but cute young girls didn't! :p

[drisley]

Mboss, the word "thetan" is a real word. There's just no truth to the claim that "purging" them is the aim of auditing. Seriously, you can read books on the subject right out of your local Borders and find that's untrue. And, speaking for myself, I would tend to place more credence on a book written either by the Church or by someone who is in it that by some "HollyWood Interupted" book which likely has the credibility of Michael Moore. ;)

Heheh...Wheels bought dianetics in hopes of landing a chick. That's a classic! ;)

[Glorified Ape]

rofl.. Is it me or is Dris actually defending scientology? If there's a bigger nutjob cult out there, I don't know of it.

[drisley]

When I see somebody say something I know to be false, I will correct them.

[WJWheels]

Originally posted by drisley
Heheh...Wheels bought dianetics in hopes of landing a chick. That's a classic! ;) Most everything I did back in those days was in hopes of landing a chick. :D:D

[Glorified Ape]

Originally posted by drisley
When I see somebody say something I know to be false, I will correct them.

Uh huh... go purge your thetans, nutboy.

Originally posted by WJWheels
Most everything I did back in those days was in hopes of landing a chick. :D:D

All that effort and nothing to show for it... :D

[mbossman2]

the concept of thetans sounds wacky to normal people, doesn't it? but the indoctrination that takes place within Scientology is considered, by many, as a form of brainwashing and, when once fully indoctrinated, is quite plausible to the indoctrinated.

[drisley]

The word "thetan" simply refers to a spiritual being. In other words, all people are thetans. This is certainly not a concept unique to Scientology. In fact, all religions say the same thing, just using different words. That's what I find funny about this, because a thetan is not something that sticks to you. According to the philosophy, it is you. You can't purge yourself, last I checked.

Source: http://www.whatisscientology.org/Html/Part02/Chp04/pg0151.html

[Lucifer]

Years ago, before telling them to get stuffed (which earned me the Condition of Enemy) I took a couple of the basic courses up to HQS. (Do birds fly? Does the Pope shit in the woods?) I was talking to some high level Scientologists.

They were trying to pressure me into giving them all my money and then some to become a superman. I said "Ok, you guys are level 5 OTs, impress me. Show me one advanced ability.
You are supposed to be able to get out of your bodies, tell me how many fingers I am holding behind my back. Levitate a pencel, demonstrate a photographic memory. Anything? No, I thought not."

[Glorified Ape]

Originally posted by drisley
The word "thetan" simply refers to a spiritual being. In other words, all people are thetans. This is certainly not a concept unique to Scientology. In fact, all religions say the same thing, just using different words. That's what I find funny about this, because a thetan is not something that sticks to you. According to the philosophy, it is you. You can't purge yourself, last I checked.

Source: http://www.whatisscientology.org/Html/Part02/Chp04/pg0151.html

Ok, but they still believe that magical space beings from far far away condemned evil spirits to volcanoes.

There's a column at Something Awful that's hilarious and somewhat informative.

http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2061

[Lucifer]

Thetan roughly equals soul. The idea is that you are an immortal spiritual being but (for one reason or another, having to do with clams, volcanos and evil dudes in flying saucers) you have forgotten this and developed false ideas or "engrams"
By "clearing" all the crap that holds you back you once again become the super-being that you should be.
You will be able to leap tall buildings with a single bound, win at poker and pick up chicks.

[drisley]

Maybe if Wheels had read Dianetics, he'da had better luck with the chick selling it to him. ;)

SomethingAwful.com is kind of like The Onion, Ape...hardly informative, IMO. Mostly for shits and giggles. I first became aware of SA back when I was working with eFront Media on selling PCMech. eFront, if I recall, had also bought SA, and so that site was in a similar legal predicament as I was at the time. I see they survived as well. Not much suprise.

[Glorified Ape]

Originally posted by drisley
Maybe if Wheels had read Dianetics, he'da had better luck with the chick selling it to him. ;)

SomethingAwful.com is kind of like The Onion, Ape...hardly informative, IMO. Mostly for shits and giggles. I first became aware of SA back when I was working with eFront Media on selling PCMech. eFront, if I recall, had also bought SA, and so that site was in a similar legal predicament as I was at the time. I see they survived as well. Not much suprise.

I meant informative as to the process at the loopy scientology places. Those people are crazy, no doubt about it. Scientologists are either crazy or scammers.

[drisley]

Ok, Ape.

[Glorified Ape]

Originally posted by drisley
Ok, Ape.

Glad you agree. For a minute there I thought you actually took them seriously.